#37 The Most Valuable Skill You Can Master to Make More Money

Episode Overview

Today’s tech driven information age drives change at a pace that is dizzying. What you knew last year is obsolete this year. And that means the ability to pick up new things fast is superpower that makes you rare and valuable in todays global economy.

In this episode, Ryan and Terry kick off a new short series on learning how to learn. And the focus for this episode is how to overcome your blocks to learning. If you’ve ever struggled with doubt and indecision that stops you pursuing new learing projects, this episode is for you.

Key Learning
Action Guiding Questions
Exercise: Building desire to learn

Ryan: Hello, Terry. Good to be back mates. Hey, you’ve got a massive sparkle in your eye. I can see it from here.

Terry: And I’m excited.

Ryan: Why do you think that is? Is it to do with the topic today,

Terry: It is right. We’re going to be covering a topic that I’ve got to an unhealthy obsession with it. I think it’s probably got to be the most valuable skill that you could learn. That’s my contention. Anyway.

Ryan: Matt? I would almost say I get too excited. It’s a little bit too excited, but I agree it is the most valuable skill that you can master regardless of what you do in any industry, any specialization. And that is

Terry: Learning how to learn.

Ryan: nice. And why is that the most valuable.

Terry: I reckon it’s the most valuable skill because the world has changed a lot just in the last 20 years, we’ve kind of shifted into this information age. And that means that technology is dictating a lot of what we do. And a lot of what’s happening around the world. And it’s kind of rewritten the rules when it comes to careers that it moves so fast.

There’s so many. Kind of things happening all at the same time, and you’ve got to be able to stay abreast of those things. So learning about what you do is really important, but if you don’t know how to learn, then you won’t be able to learn fast enough. And just that pace of change is the thing that’s really starting to create some challenge.

Ryan: Yeah, for sure. And really what we’re kind of talking about. Adaptability, isn’t it. The ability to kind of evolve what your understanding and skillset is now because the environments and the conditions are changing so quickly as well. Is that right?

Terry: Yeah. Just ask someone who managed the blockbuster in 2002. And if you don’t know what a blockbuster is, that’s probably the point in itself. Blockbuster was the number one, had a monopoly on sort of video rental video hire globally. These guys were the absolute behemoth. And then when the space of five years completely irrelevant, completely.

That is a really good example of how, if you can’t stay abreast of things and you’re not on top of what’s happening next, then you’re going to struggle. Probably the other example that I give is not many people know this, but the adventures of digital photography was actually Kodak and it was an employee at Kodak and he brought that idea to top management, even built it out.

And they said, nah, I don’t know about that, mate. And then next minute, Kodak again, that’s a hundred year old company. Again, huge monopoly gone overnight.

Ryan: Yeah. And the other one is self-driving cars, obviously just in the last few weeks, Tessa has launched the FSD mode, which is that full self-driving car. And. You start to think, what does that mean for Uber? For example, who have obviously built this network of people that rely on people that have to drive their own cars and offer a service.

And so you go, what happens when there’s self-driving cars moving around? And so there’s all this change, all these things that are happening. As we’re talking about makes learning how to learn the most important thing, because we’re always going to have to change. That’s a real constant, isn’t it change?

And so what we’re kind of talking about here is the ability to digest new information and turn that into skill. Turn that into specialization expertise and be able to utilize that over time and not find yourself in industries that are stinking. Let’s find yourself in industries that are growing and where the opportunities exist.

Terry: And there’s some recent research has shown that the average Aussie will have up to 78 different jobs across their lifespan and across five different careers. So. Your ability to learn one thing and then Dawn out on that for the rest of you. That doesn’t exist anymore, basically. So what is the most valuable thing to be able to learn how to learn the next thing basically?

So you’ve got your thing you’re doing now, but what are the meta skills? And one of the things that you can transfer into other environments, the most transferable skill is learning. It doesn’t matter where you go, it’s going to be valuable to you and to the people that you’re. Anyway you go. So that’s why we’re saying it’s the superpower.

The fastest learners are the highest earners and the more you can earn, the more you can save. And it’s that high earning power that helps you reach escape velocity, right? Because when you’re earning power far outstrips inflation, and you’ve had to put that kit money to work, that’s how you can start making some strides forward isn’t it?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that to him. Uh, Skype velocity. Can you describe that? How would you break that down? A Skype.

Terry: I think the scape velocity means there’s kind of a, a level of progress that you make and you might be sort of inching ahead. Escape velocity is where you start. Striding ahead. You stop moving ahead at a rate of knots that most people can’t, it’s really just about unlocking that potential that’s escape velocity for me.

Ryan: Yeah, so the velocity is obviously the pace and then the escape is escaping the rat rights,

Terry: Yeah, that’s right.

Ryan: Yeah. Nice. And it makes me think about this going out workspace, I think is shown becoming almost an exemplar to this, which is she immigrated from overseas to Australia to build a new life.

Basically started out, couldn’t get work. She taught herself how to program. She looked at what skills do I need, where my interests, where they like put herself through a couple of courses, but a lot of just self-paced learning. And now she’s got this skillset that she’s found herself in high demand. She gets paid well for watching.

And she kind of really dictates her own time, but she also gets a lot of opportunities, a lot of job opportunities from recruiters and things like. On quite a consistent basis. And so she’s found herself in a position where she feels in control because she can dictate the terms because she’s got so much bargaining power.

If whatever it was, she was working, wasn’t working out. She’s now got the ability to step out and do something else and kind of explore another opportunity. And so, yeah, it was just a kind of a good example of someone who was benefiting from the willingness to learn.

Terry: Yeah. And she also sort of mentioned that she’s been smart with their money along the way, too. Right. So she saved up much of money, pay down, hate to debt really quickly. And now she’s absolutely smashing down the mortgage on our home and kind of building a level of wealth for her and probably her future family that most people could have on a single income or single wage, it’s all down to what you said that willingness to learn. put yourself through the discomfort. I guess that comes with learning something new and something.

Ryan: Yeah. And even just in this space, in the personal finance space, like we’ve got to have that willingness to learn. New things, the willingness to adapt and change and be open to change as well. The reality is things are changing at such a pace that it is a time, bit dizzying, hard to keep hands on. But obviously the rise of cryptocurrency is starting to underwrite.

A lot of the personal finance space, the NFTs, and obviously the blockchain that goes with that. Things are changing. Tech is moving at a pace that is exponential. And so learning how to learn is that skill that helps you stay abreast of that change. And so that’s really what we’re diving into in this series now.

Terry: Yeah, it is mine. And probably one thing would add to that is change doesn’t care, whether you can. It doesn’t really give a damn whether you’re ready for. It doesn’t care whether you want it, it doesn’t matter. So you’ve got to be out of it. You go like, yep. All right, this is happening. What are we going to do about it?

Not do I want it to happen? That question is irrelevant. This is happening. So in this series, we’re going to be talking about how do we overcome our resistance to learning. It’s very easy to kind of get into a sort of state of mind where you say, oh, I’ve gone to uni and now I’m good. You’ve got to get over that to keep learning and keep sort of growing as much as you can.

So that’s what we’re going to be talking about this first episode in the second year. Super excited to bring on Scott Young. And if you don’t know who Scott Young is, he’s the guy who wrote this book ultra. And why would you want to listen to Scott Young? Well, Scott Young took himself through the whole MIT computer science course in less than 12 months.

And for context, it takes the average undergrad four years to be able to do that. And he taught himself computer science from MIT in 12 months. In addition to that, he’s taught himself three or four different languages. He’s taught himself all these different skills around drawing and artwork. So he’s very, autodidactic self-taught was basically the Michael Jordan of self-learning and a.

Ryan: call him an autodidact. I’d call him a mad dog. I’d say.

Terry: He’s an autodidact, absolute mad dog. And yes, we were lucky enough to have a chat to Scott. He’s going to be coming on in the second episode and sharing some of the most important principles from his book and delving into what is that he’s learnt about learning hard things and learning them fast.

That’s going to be two. And then in the third episode, we’re going to be talking about. How do we relate all this stuff back to money? Obviously this is a podcast about money and our bent and our bias is saying, look, learning about money is one of the most important things you can do because it unlocks all this prosperity elsewhere, because you take all that stress away and you can have your money working for you, your unlock, your time from your money. And now you can sort of start reaching that escape velocity.

Ryan: Yes. I love that. And I think just to give that an overarching motto or even principle, if you like to the time with this series, it is, as you said before, the fastest learners are the highest earners and it’s all about reaching escape velocity, which is good. So what are we going to talk about in this.

Terry: So we’re going to talk about the number one thing that keeps us stuck, and that stops us learning, learning how to learn. That’s all well and good, but if there’s something that’s in the way, it’s very bit difficult to be able to use any of that stuff. So we’re gonna be diving into what is that one thing, and then what do we do about it?

The other thing that to be talking about is a really simple, but very powerful technique for overcoming this issue and how you can learn these hard things faster. And then a very simple, simple trick to be able to generate momentum very fast when you’re doing any new learning project and accelerating your path to mastery in any new skill that you’re trying to master.

Ryan: Nice. And then at the end we’ve got a tool. Don’t we to make this quite easy, something that will link into the show

Terry: We have. Yeah. So there’s a couple of principles. Here is a couple of things when it go through and we kind of thought, ah, it’d be just easier if you’re thinking about a call to action and how to act on this information. If we gave you a bit of a tool that would walk you through this whole process that we’re going to cover.

Ryan: Yeah. Nice. Well, let’s get into it. So let’s start with that. First one, you mentioned the thing that keeps us stuck, spinning our wheels. What is the thing that really stops?

Terry: Yeah, well, when you’re learning anything it’s uncomfortable. And so there’s sort of like this hurdle you have to overcome. And the thing that usually stops us is we don’t actually have enough desire to overcome. We don’t have the will to do it. It’s not the skill. It’s not our time. It’s not our talent or our capability, our intelligence, anything like that.

It’s simply desire. We see this all the time in the program, right. There are a bunch of different people that come in and all from different walks of life. And we say some very, very busy. But they have a lot of desire to be able to get on top of this, make it a project. And they managed to accomplish things. And I guess move through the process so much faster than other people purely because they have that desire powering them. So it’s always the difference.

Ryan: Yeah. And you see the contrast too. We see it from our perspective and it’s like, sometimes you have. Working part-time and can’t find the time we’ve got people that run businesses have 30, 40 employees, and just a lot of things in the air and they do find the time. And so I think desire is such a critical.

Terry: Well, correction people that are part-time that don’t have a desire. They try to find the time, the people that are full-time and they’re super busy, but they have the desire they make at the time. That’s the difference, finding it or make it.

Ryan: Yeah, putting a fork in the ground. And I know that this was true for me. I wasn’t a massive learning curve. Growing up that’s for sure. Yeah. Going through school, you know, I didn’t even read the English book. The one that you threw the exam on that was the top of personnel was I got through school. He’s got to graze uni.

I got a bit more engaged when I did my master’s a little bit more engaged, but still. I wasn’t really intrigued by learning, not until I got into the professional context and started to think more about business and what I wanted to do with my life. And so what I found, the thing that gave me the greatest desire to want to dive in, focus on how to learn so that I can digest more information and kind of just grow quicker.

Speed. Everything up was just having a pretty deep dissatisfaction with where else. The environment I was working in the culture of the business that I was working in. I think also just the right of progress one it had to do with those conditions and feeling like I was headbutting the ceiling. It was a business that had a bit of nepotism as well.

It wasn’t always about merit. There was also these other games that were getting played in that business. But then also just knowing that. I was kind of stuck until I learnt how to learn and learn how to kind of add all those strings to the bow that were necessary for me to create something different and kind of step into something new.

And obviously I’ve mentioned before, like that’s when I engaged you early days. And I was like, I want to figure this out. I want to create some structure about my learning and also just the ability to learn more quickly, kind of get through new things and. Figure out the right things to learn based off where I’m trying to go as well.

And so for me, for a start, the desire came from that dissatisfaction Bain applies where I just needed to create some change. I want it to speed things up. I want him to get away from that into the next thing. And I knew that I had to grow to be able to do that. And even we see this with our business now, don’t we like, we always talk about a business can never outgrow its founder.

And so the version of ourselves early dies in our business. We knew that we had to continue to learn and learn at a greater rate as well, so that we could speed up things. And so we could create something that serves more people and do this podcast as an example as well. And so when I go back and I think about the version of me before I was really open to all this learning and the version after the catalyst that kind of created that change from.

What was that dissatisfaction? That kind of feeling of not feeling in control of the different aspects of my life and the, I guess the conditions that I had to work in as well to earn the income that I want, but also the amount of income that I could earn at the same time. And so the desire for me definitely came from.

Terry: Yeah. And one thing I’ve noticed too, since I guess that time and knowing you from then, and knowing you now is your. Confidence in your ability to learn has changed so much. So you learn the one thing and you teach yourself something about yourself, which just how I can figure that out. I can figure these other things out that are outside of the narrow domain that I’ve been trained in or educated in.

I can figure this stuff out. So what I’d say is like this super power of learning, how to learn. It’s another compounding thing. So if you invest the time in doing it, then it actually gets easier and easier to be able to overcome those learning hurdles. Even when you have to learn something completely.

Ryan: Great. Like, I think that my university learning actually closed the environment, which I thought I had to know. And so it wasn’t until I kind of broke away from that and say, There’s all this other stuff out there that I need to understand. And so I’ve got to increase the rate at which I can understand it.

And then when you make that change, you become much more flexible in your thinking as well. You create a new ability to kind of open your mind up in different ways to explore different learning that can help serve you on the purpose, on the journey that you’re going on as well. But what do we do about it?

How do we build that desire?

Terry: Yeah, well, I think there’s three different parts of this, right? And it always comes back to psychology so much at the time. For me, those three steps is basically, you’ve got to identify it. Your rate, limiting skill. You’ve got to surface the cost of inaction. And you’ve got to shoot for the smallest. When, if you can do these three things together, then you are going to expand that desire.

And if you can expand that desire to a point where it’s bigger than I guess your lazy lizard brain saying, oh, I don’t want to do the work. I don’t want to feel like a beginner again. If you can expand it beyond that, then you’ll actually start to move forward and you will overcome that resistance to learning.

Ryan: Not so let’s dig into that first one, identify the right limiting skill. Can you.

Terry: Yeah, so the right limiting skill, this is a concept, I think it is from Scott Young and he talks about sort of understanding that there are parts of what you can do that will enable you to get results. And then there are things that you can’t do that are limiting you from getting the next level or results.

So you’ve got to think about what is the skill that if I learnt it, it could unlock the next level of progress. Professionally or in my career or in my business or whatever it is to being able to figure that out and having the self-awareness to be able to do that. That’s a super power in and of itself.

Most people will do it kind of just, I guess they stumbled across it. There’s a guy I used to work with in sport and he was kind of like the nerdy kid and he was sort of like more tech focused and he was in that kind of tech video. So to review space, but he wanted to get more involved in the sports science part of it.

And he was sort of floating here for a couple of years. And then there was this new tool that came up. It was like what they call an athlete management system. So it was basically about collecting data around athletes, using that data to help with decision making and management decisions and things like that.

And so he threw himself into this and he built a set of skills that were. Unrivaled at the time and because of the skills that he built there, he tended to get more responsibility, more opportunity. And when he left that job, he’s just continued to get more and more responsibility just by virtue of being that one person who understands this new thing at a level that not many people.

Around Australia. And so now after a period of four or five years, I actually spoke to him the other day. And he’s now head of like performance science at the iOS. He’s got a small team that work under him. He kind of sets his own schedule. He lives a great life and it’s because he figured out, hang on, this is a rate limiting skill here that people need this in this space.

I’ve got a proclivity, but now I don’t know it. So I’m not as valuable, but if I did learn it, I’d become very valuable very quickly. So I’m going to spend a lot of time to figure that out and that’s absolutely paid off for him.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And obviously leaning into your curiosity, linking that with what you’re already have as a skill and your action bosses that exists already and connecting those two and leaning more into that makes sense. And so how do you identify that? Right. Limiting.

Terry: Yeah, I think you’re right. You just mentioned you sort of leaning into curiosity’s a little bit. I think that’s a good place to start, but you can be a little bit of deliberate about it as well. You’ve got to think about what are the skills you have right now that make you valuable and how do they all link together and what is it?

I feel that if you stack it on top of these skills, it kind of builds on everything you already know. But it unlocks that next level. It’s going to make you even harder to compete against. So if you can think about that just a little bit more deliberately, I think it’s going to be useful. And then you just want to, I guess, stress test your thinking.

Step two of this is find out from other people what’s valuable in this area and what they’re looking for and the help they need, the problems they have to get solved and how this skill, if mass that could help solve those problems, that can help you start to zero in on the skill or skills that you want to be actually investing your time to be out of.

Ryan: Yeah, not. So I create a roadmap basically and go, what are the highest weighted skills that can just speed everything else up? Like, oh, ultimately it becomes super boosters for the other thing.

Terry: So think about it. If you’re an accountant, right. You’ve got these base set of skills, you know how to kind of crunch the numbers, you know how to do a tax return, all that sort of stuff. Right. But what are not many accountants know how to do. Help you figure out the accounting software, train you on how to do that,

show you how to turn that into an asset for your business that improves your decision making and teach you how to do that. So here in accountant, what’s the number one skill. You can learn two things, I reckon. How do you help people better use technology in their business? So they’re not reacting all the time.

They can be more productive for their decisions. And what’s the skill that you need to be able to do that. The ability to. We’ve talked about this in the past, but your ability to teach is such a right limiting factor for a lot of knowledge professionals. So your stuff great. But do you have to transfer it to somebody else?

That’s like one of the easiest places to start. Awesome. You’ve got your domain expertise. How effective are you getting? What ends in your head into somebody? Else’s

Ryan: And then the superpower is learning how to learn, how to do.

Terry: exactly.

Ryan: And then the second one you mentioned was surfacing the cost of inaction. Why do we do that? And why does that.

Terry: Yeah. Well, what it is is basically you want to explore the cost of what doing nothing is really actually costing you. You’re not really aware of it, but you actually want to delve into it, get a little bit introspective and think, what is this actually going to mean for me? What does it mean for me now?

And what will it mean? And the reason you want to do that is because it’s actually. that.

pushes us out of our comfort zone and into action. It’s a sense of progress that actually keeps us moving, but we’ve got to get moving first. And so you actually want to create that sense of dissatisfaction. Like you talked about that feeling of going, oh man, like I’m butting my head against the wall here in this business.

What does it all need to know to be able to break free of these kind of shackles? So you want to actually deliberately create that because that is what powers you and creates that blows, that desire up so much. Knowing what to learn that can be compelling because you can start to envisage a new future.

That’s the, toward, the away from part is what would this cost me if I don’t actually do it, what’s the cost of doing nothing.

Ryan: Yeah. So really just irritating the pain, basically like finding wise to irritate it to a level way to slack. Now the pain of change is greater than the pain of staying.

Terry: Yep. And if you think about any time in your life where you’ve made a big change, it usually starts from that place of acute dissatisfaction that you discussed before. So rather than waiting for life to serve up these opportunities to you, why don’t you create it for yourself? That’s essentially what we’re saying here.

Ryan: Yeah, and I think it’s different when you manufacture it yourself too, isn’t it? Because you get to step into it, but you can also step out of it. That’s not quite, as in escapable, basically that feeling like we tend to do this with different aspects, but we’re like, all right, there’s a Hy-Vee change that needs to happen here.

Let’s make sure that you’re a tight and link the cost of that with that actual idea or that thought, or that pattern, which you’re about to dive into now. And so this is how we actually create that. Isn’t it. So you’re going to talk about the Dickinson.

Terry: Yeah, it is, this is the way to do it. The Dickens method it’s been popularized actually by Tony Robbins. I think it was the first one that kind of used it or talked about it. And it’s a really smart way for you to artificially create that feeling. You. So you can sort of move that forward. Like we said before, create that desire and move forward.

And it’s based off Charles Dickens is a Christmas Carol story. So most people have heard this story. It’s where the screws of the bad guy kind of gets visited by the ghost of Christmas, past the ghost of Christmas present and the ghost of Christmas future. And each of the jobs of those ghosts is to basically surface all these costs of what he’s doing.

Cause he’s not seeing it or he doesn’t want to. And by surfacing all these costs, he kind of starts to realize the error of his ways and where it would lead to if things don’t change. And I think it’s a great way for you to be able to, like I said before consciously create that sense of dissatisfaction so you can build your desire and get over your learning hurdles.

Ryan: Yes, absolutely. In that artificial creation of that irritation massively just creates this urgency around having to do it now, having to say no, I’m not going to say I’ll do it tomorrow or I’ll do it next week or I’ll do it next year at Macy’s. Well, I’ve got to do it now because there’s a cause and effect relationship.

Yeah. That’s a late and lag result, a late behavior, a late decision. The things that I’m doing right now that I get to weigh the right, the rewards from in three weeks or three months or three years. The opposite is true, which is the cost of that inaction like you were talking about in three years or in three weeks or three months is actually something that I’m not going to stand for and I’m going to create that change.

And so the urgency that that can create around today is so critical to really forcing yourself, to step into it and decide, yep. Now is the right time to make those changes. And so how would you actually go about doing this? So how would you say. That’s thinking. Yup. I want to increase a bit of the urgency around this irritate the problem a little bit.

So I lean in more. How would you tell them to do.

Terry: So the first thing is just go ghost of Christmas past. So you ask yourself the question. How is not having this skill or not understanding or not mastering it. How has it impacted me in the past? What opportunities have I missed? What are the benefits that I’ve forgone for? Not being able to understand this thing.

And I guess the way to think about it is you want to list as many answers as possible. And then you want to think about the flow on effects of each of those answers. So you might say that not having the skill has been, that I’ve been passed over for the last two jobs. Because the people that have got those promotions have this skill, and then you say, well, what’s the impact of that?

Well, the impact of that is I’m earning Western. What’s the impact of earning less money. I’m saving less than I could otherwise I’m investing less. What’s the impact of not being able to invest more now? Well, over the course of 10 years could be a hundred thousand dollars. Now that’s just in a financial sense, but think more in a kind of a spiritual sense.

What is it doing for you? Knowing that other people are going past. Well, I’m becoming less satisfied with losing engagement and what’s the impact of that? Well, I’m probably not as good as I could be on a day-to-day basis. I’m probably just not quite there. And then sort of my ability to serve the people I’m serving and solve the problems is maybe just a little bit off.

What’s that going to mean? If I don’t do it? Well, my reputation is going to continue to suffer. And if my reputation continues to suffer, where does that end up? And you just kind of keep going, always kind of flow on a fix these second, third order effects and keep sort of working your way through it. You want to create as many as you possibly can.

In each of these categories. So that first one is how is not having the skill already impact. Yeah, your brain’s not going to want to go there because your brain just wants to move away from pain. So you’re going to find this difficult, but this is where you sit down and you force it out of yourself. It is there.

And what I usually find when I’m working through this with someone is they’ll say, oh, it doesn’t really impact me. And I say, yes, it has. And I’ll say, no, not really. No, it has. I want you to come on. Just give me five things and they’ll get to five. And I say, that’s about it. I got, nah, give me another five things.

And inevitably at a certain point, the damn wall breaks and they go, there’s actually a lot of consequences to this and I sort of start to tumble out. Right. Cause your brain is really good at protecting you from that sense of psychic pain. And so I would think about it in terms of how it’s impacted me in the past, then I would move forward.

And I would say, how has not having the skill impacting you right now, right now in this. How it hurting you not to have this skill, do the same thing, go through all these different areas of life. Think about the impact to you. Think about the impact to the people that you actually want to serve. And then think about the impact of the people that you love and care about that you can actually provide for us.

So if you’ve got a family that’s a really strong one for me, how’s it impacting my family to be able to not be able to achieve. How’s it hurting them those people that I care about most. So you’re thinking about it on a couple of different dimensions, right? It’s like the past the present, and then you kind of shift forward into the future, but you also think about the people that you want to serve.

You think about yourself, your own ambitions, and you also think about the people that you love and care about. So if you move forward and you go into how’s this hurting me. You should start to feel a bit of a sense of pain and start to feel a bit of a sense of urgency, but you need to then move forward and ask yourself how has not mastering the skill.

How will it impact me in the future? What’s the worst case. If I don’t figure this out, where do I end up? And this is where you want to use your imagination and you want to project yourself forward and say, if nothing changes, what’s the worst case scenario here for me. And then absolutely detailed. And the same thing.

What’s the impact to you? What’s the impact of the people you serve? What is the impact on the people that you love? Go through. All those areas come up with as many ideas you can think about second, third order consequences. For every idea. If you do.

that, you should finish up with at least 50 or 60 data points here.

And at the end of it, you should feel very uncomfortable. And that is great. That is how it should be. That’s exactly what you want.

Ryan: Mike, just listening to you talk through that made me uncomfortable. So there’s definitely an irritation just from thinking about it. Let alone actually. But if you really want to create a change, you’ve got to lean into that discomfort, as you mentioned. And I know you’ve used the phrase before. You’ve got to walk into that dark cave to find the gold nugget, because when you do find it and you come out the other side with it, you’ve got something that can really set you apart.

And so that’s that one and two, and then there was step three, which was shoot for the smallest win. Taught me.

Terry: Yeah, this one’s really important, right? Because if you built a whole heap of urgency and. And again on top of this. Then the tendency is to go for this kind of all or nothing mentality where it’s like, all right, I’m going to have to become an absolute master at this within, you know, the next month. And so you go really hard at something and you don’t really step back and have a think about it.

You don’t actually plan how you going to do it. And I think the discussion we’re going to have with Scott in the second episode is going to help a lot with how to think through this more clearly. But I guess the one thing I wanted to point out is like, go against your instincts here and actually think about the smallest possible sense of progress that you can create.

Because we said before, Pine is what pushes us forward, but it’s a sense of progress that keeps us moving. So you’ve got to find the smallest sense of progress. So you got to think about the big vision you now have for becoming a genius at the next level of skill. So you want to be the computer science major or whatever.

You’re going to think. All right, break that down into these manageable milestones. And then what’s the first one that I can show. Because now I can narrow my focus. I can see that I can have this win within the next one to three weeks month, whatever it is. And so you want to explore ways that you can make getting started really easy, and then you want to break it right down.

So that first learning milestone it’s within your line of sight. It’s not like, wow. It’s gotta be within your line of sight and you can reach for it. So if I was thinking about an example of how this could work and how this does work, I would actually think about what you’ve been working on more recently with the work you’ve been doing around a member portal.

It’s the place that our members come into actually access the program, move through that whole pathway and process and meet each other and all these kind of things that is required you to be able to spend a lot of time learning a bunch of different skills. And you talked about how using custom CSS was one of them.

Can you explain how. Well, we need to build these whole new thing, but then you sort of broken it down and insisted in small sense of progress along the way that you’ve been able to stack these little winds on top of each other.

Ryan: Yeah, I think again, like the desire started with the fact that out of the box solutions just didn’t serve the purpose that we wanted to create. Like we wanted to create. You know, a, of Mons basically where we can bring together the people that have worked through our program, help them interact, but also create a really unique customer journey and have a really good digital experience and kind of make sure that we can use everything that we know from behavioral psychology and all those things kind of build it in.

And a lot of that has to do with design. And so when we were using the stuff beforehand, that was kind of out of the box and kind of just pacing things together and had to deal with what was already created for us to satisfy. I was like, not this isn’t working enough. And like we did, we’re like, well, what does this mean?

And kind of played out that scenario. And so to think about, as you mentioned, how did it break that down? So one of the key skills was thinking of. One, how do you obviously create the journey, but also how do you design it? How do you style it? And so custom CSS is just how you basically write a stalling language.

How do you design website? From a manual perspective and not just accept what is out of the box. And so the way that I kind of broke that down was the first thing was just, how do you change the color of a heading, for example, what language needs to exist to change the color of that heading? And that’s a quick win.

Something can get on YouTube, have a look at now. I can do that. Cool. Sweet. What else can I do?

Terry: Before you carry on. How long did that take you to get that first? Like, so that’s how long, five minutes where you’re like, I’ve got to figure this one thing out five minutes.

Ryan: Yeah, five, 10 minutes for sure. Yep. And the breakthrough actually getting it to change color so satisfying, slow. Good. And so that sense of progress had me absolutely hoped. And so I like, if you look it out a member portal now, for example, in soon, this will become open to everyone. And so now there’s about 700 lines of custom CSS that exists within that member portal that makes sure that that experience is really unique and really distinct, like you said before and make it easy for people to flow through and be connected with the right ideas and the right content and remove as much friction as possible.

But the difference between that simple changing of the color of the font. Some of the things I’m doing more recently is dramatic. There’s a big gap between those two. And if I tried to do the most complex thing at the start, I would have put my head through a wall or a window, but it was the incremental progress.

And even a little bit of struggle that had to be overcome with trying to figure things out that made it addictive. And so now it’s something that through. But I think as you said, breaking it down into small wins, starting with something that you can win on today makes it feel so much more attainable as well and expands what you think is possible as.

Terry: And this is where I think it’s exponential when you partner up with people and you compliment skills because as. you’ve been learning all that, I’ve been learning , which is. The technology industries, why to think about how to gamify and create, use it, unifies experiences that make it delightful for people to use.

The reason why you love getting on a different apps and you love using different apps is because of the why those apps are built. And so as you’re doing that and building those skills, I’m kind of building this out of scale of going well, how do we actually influence behavior? How do we influence someone’s internal experience in for us?

We don’t want to be one of those, like, oh yeah, come into our program. And it’s like that off the shelf cereal box thing that you can just take and everybody else’s looks the same. We don’t want that at all. So you think about how you can kind of collaborate with people to around building these skills that can create something completely different.

Ryan: And proximity is so powerful as well at the conversation you had with Scott Young, which will be the next episode. You think about how that just increases your drive and opens your mind to ways of learning. They obviously take from what his figured out, but also from what the results have been from his learning at the same time.

Terry: Yeah, definitely everything kind of bumps up against each other and all these ideas collide. And you ended up coming up with some really cool stuff. How you get ahead of, I guess, this change and this adaptability is your becoming the reason for it, as opposed to it happening.

Ryan: Yes. Spot on. To really wrap this up. As we mentioned before, learning is that super power yet the fastest learners are the highest earners and you got to create that desire. You’ve got to unsettle yourself right now, so that desire builds. And so you can lean into those things. And then we’ve talked about how do you increase your desire?

You zero in on that rate, limiting skill, you surface the cost of, you know, And then you start with that smallest wind. That’s possible. Just start with that color of the header. Yeah, because next minute you’ll be designing something so much crazier. But you’ll have opened yourself up to learning that thing by getting that win and sensing that progress and that’ll help you make it stick. Anything else from you?

Terry: I guess we talked about it earlier. We know that these three steps. These are all good, but what do I do now? How do I actually get across and do that? So what we’ve done is put together a really simple tool that you can access to the show notes of this episode. Just scroll down and wherever you are, just click on the link, show notes, jumping on our website, and you’ll be able to see there’s a link that will take you across into this tool.

It’ll just guide you through the whole process. Everything we just discussed, how do you zero. Right and limiting skill. How do you surface the cost of inaction? How do you shoot for the smallest win? If you use that tool, listen, back to this episode, you better go through this whole process, build that desire.

Because as I said before, if you can build that desire to a point where it’s greater than your want or wilted or nothing, then you’ll actually get into action. And then when you come into our next episode and I start talking with Scott Young and he starts to share some of these really powerful principles are being able to learn and pick up anything. Then you get to be able to take full advantage of that knowledge and be able to put that into practice.

Ryan: Nice. Good stuff. Lots of good stuff to come. And so. Loved today’s episode. Hope you got something out of it as always, if you did share it with someone that you think could benefit from it, jump in right. And review all of those things. But yeah, we look forward to digging into this next one with Scott.

Yeah. And then we’ll wrap back around and then we’ll be thinking about how do we learn about money? How do we increase our learning in this space? And as I mentioned earlier, a lot is changing. There’s a lot of evolution that’s happening in this space in particular. And so we really just want to make sure we set the foundations for being able to move with the times and adapt as things do change.

And so I hope you liked today’s episode and we’ll see.

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